Finally getting reduced

[froude]

Well i saw my key yesterday and he is on about reducing me 5mil to 50mil on my methadone as ive been on it so long and nothing has been done in my case,his words were "Sorry we havent been getting appointments to you ,so know we are going to do a care plan ok".Ha!, you could of heard a pin drop,im pretty happy as its only 5mil and he said they aint gonna touch my diazepam.As i have already said to him im not reduceing on my Benzos,i dont mind the meth but he can jump if he thinks im reducing on my Benzos.To be honest i havent used for months now so reducing a bit on my meth is gonna keep them happy and i want to do it aswell,looking at the larger picture he said when i get down to about 15mil they will then give me a blocker,so all in all im pretty happy with how it went.So pleased they aint taking my benzos away,even though he was bleating on about only really being on benzos for 3-4 weeks and not the 25years ive been on them.I knew this day was coming sooner than later,and im pleased with myself that YES came out of my mouth so easy lol.Let you know how i get on with the de-tox,i know this might seem weird but im looking forward to knocking down on my meth.Hope you all have a good day,All the best Froude.

[OP8S]

Am glad that you are pleased that you agreed to the 5mls reduction, but what if you decide at 30mls that you don't want to go any further mate ? See that's how it all starts & once you have been reduced to say 30mls, what if the cravings come back. At this moment in time things are so fucked up something will have to go  very seriously wrong for your DSP to increase your dose again & belive you me once you have reduced off your meth it will be then that they start putting the pressure on you about reducing your benzo script. Sounds to me that your key put the frighteners on you by suggesting that your benzo script was reduced & you agreed to a drop in meth just to keep that safe. I hope that I'm wrong & that you get to where you want to be, but in the present drug treatment scenario I know that I'm not giving an inch unless it's agreed that I can increase my dose again should I ever feel like doing so.
All the best.

[Jimmy]

Also Froude, the blocker, which I assume is Naltrexone (I don't of any other opiate antagonist), cannot be introduced until you've been totally opiate free for at least a few days. Any traces of opiate in your system, and the blocker/opiate reaction will bring on severe precipitated withdrawals; much worse than your average withdrawals, believe me. Unless they're on about subutex/suboxone, in which case, you'd still be on a maintenance script anyway.

Best of luck
Jimmy

[froude]

OP8 im under no illusions about this reduction and yes if i do feel uncomfortable at say 30mil i will be put up ,my key did say that(oh im hanging on his every word).If they had said one or the other i would of shut down and told them to do one and just walked out.I do wanna drop on my meth,and thats the chance i gotta take with the cravings,yeah if they come back i will be put back up,im not one of them people to sit there and not say anything,i will open my mouth and put my point across.I should be ok but if there is drama then i will deal with it when it arises.
Jimmy dont really know much  about the blocker but your right it will be Naltrexone,when my key said about "when i hit 15mil we will use a blocker"i thought to myself if its a blocker(had mates who have had the implant)then id have to be opiate free so dont know what he is saying when he is going on about the 15mil.I said ages ago that i want to feel as little as possible when de-toxing from meth,i know i will feel something from the de-tox, especially when i get down to the smaller doses,just see how it goes ,i could always flip right out and then they would just section me again lol.Thanks to you all ,and i will do this with my eyes wide open,they will have a hard job on their hands if they do start fucking me around.Have a good weekend ,all the best Froude

[OP8S]

I have no doubt that you will take no shit, a reduction is usually futile unless the user feels that they are in control at all times & I'm sure that you will not shy away from telling them your feelings. Keep us updated on how it's going mate. Best of luck.
Cheers

[derek d j]

As I'm sure you realise, Froude, the 'care plan' is meant to be at your dictation. Too many keys, perhaps under orders from the 'abstinence' cadre making a power play for control of drug services,  present it as a 'plan to reduce' and give the user the impression they have no alternative but to agree. If you want to come down, great, but remember it's meant to be your decision.

I know. I suspect Cambridge was used as a 'trial' by those schemers within the dsp who thought to get a jump on the competition. Addicts are famously unorganised and it at first appeared our only option was to negotiate a slower rate. What we had there, and what from the reports on this site is now elsewhere, was the appalling sight of Voluntary Sector dsps happy to shoot lives all to hell in order to report an illusion of a drug free clientele. By this they hope to win favour with, and make more money from government.

Drug Treatment is in one awful state. If there was one chance in a hundred this 'encouragement to abstinence' would work, there might be mitigating factors. But it won't. Few users are 'cured'. The rest are simply pushed out into the criminal twilight. Do those 'in charge' know that? If they do, what's the intention? Is there a human rights issue involved somewhere? Some rather awkward questions need to be asked as a matter of urgency.

[Anon33]

OP8 im under no illusions about this reduction and yes if i do feel uncomfortable at say 30mil i will be put up ,my key did say that(oh im hanging on his every word).If they had said one or the other i would of shut down and told them to do one and just walked out.I do wanna drop on my meth,and thats the chance i gotta take with the cravings,yeah if they come back i will be put back up,im not one of them people to sit there and not say anything,i will open my mouth and put my point across.I should be ok but if there is drama then i will deal with it when it arises.
Yes that is what was said to me, but when the day came....it was a lot harder to get more....long as it is all your decision
Jimmy dont really know much  about the blocker but your right it will be Naltrexone,when my key said about "when i hit 15mil we will use a blocker"i thought to myself if its a blocker(had mates who have had the implant)then id have to be opiate free so dont know what he is saying when he is going on about the 15mil.I said ages ago that i want to feel as little as possible when de-toxing from meth,i know i will feel something from the de-tox, especially when i get down to the smaller doses,just see how it goes ,i could always flip right out and then they would just section me again lol.Thanks to you all ,and i will do this with my eyes wide open,they will have a hard job on their hands if they do start fucking me around.Have a good weekend ,all the best Froude

[Anon33]

From 90ml I got down to 7ml, went back to 30ml, then relapsed HARD.....I got promised that I could go back up but it has been a battle and we are still battling.........
If have learnt anything, has got to be want you want, otherwise expect more headaches 
xx

[sapphire]

From 90ml I got down to 7ml, went back to 30ml, then relapsed HARD.....I got promised that I could go back up but it has been a battle and we are still battling.........
If have learnt anything, has got to be want you want, otherwise expect more headaches 
xx

It makes you wonder Anon33, what do these people expect?? If you relapse and need to go back up then you need back up!

I used to hate it when posters called keyworkers or cdt doctors idiots, but now I can find no other word to describe them. 

[OP8S]

It's written in black & white , 60-120mls is considered to be the theraputic dose. Reduce cravings & such things, any other dose should be considered a reduction surely ? Personally 60mls is a bit low for me in the past I've had difficulties at 80ml, even on the 100+ dose that I am on just now I can't walk into a mates house where there is gear about & not succumb to temptation. Maybe that's down to lack of will-power, or as I see it & I know in my heart, I still want to use opiates. As long as that deeply entrenched feeling is inside me I think it would be stupid to say the least to try & stop taking my daily dose. Many years of hard work have been put in to get me where I am now, not by any key but by myself. Is it any wonder that it scares the b'jeezus out of me to be forced to reduce ? I'm too old now to arrive back at square one & have too much to lose.

[sapphire]

I know OP, it is frightening.

The "recovery" purple balloon people talk of recovery capital, surely OP as you have job, house, family, social life etc then your key should see you have "recovery capital" that you wouldn't have if your script was forcibly reduced.

Does anyone know the credentials you do (or don't!!) need to be a keyworker?

[froude]

I have read everything that people have put and my first reaction was to say,"Derek i know that my care plan is at my pace and Anon33"thats you and not me,you relapsing doesnt mean that im going to ,plus you had difficulties getting your dose back up dont mean that im going to get that hassle,everyone is different".I have been in deep thought about my reduction and things leading up to it and it is all based on me being clean for a couple of months,eveyone is different,well when it comes down to reducing i think that everyone is not different but in the same boat with their own D.S.P's.Ive taken on board what everyone has said and have come to the conclusion that .How does my key worker know me well enough in 2 appointments for him to do a care plan and say im ready to reduce,when he doesnt know me,all he knows is what he has read in my file.Yes looking back i do think i got so wrapped up in how well i was doing,that i thought to myself why not reduuce 5mil on my meth,not really thinking about it long term,my key said the reduction will start fairly soon,now thats the fastest my D.S.P have ever moved,looking back at when i was with him i can now see that the only thing on the Agenda was getting me reduced or some kind of reduction,and i was silly enough to fall for it.I pick up tomorrow so i wonder if its the start of my first 50mil instead of 55mil.Derek thanks for pointing out that it should be done at my pace and not my keys,going back to that day again when i look at it now i feel i was under pressure to reduce thats why i said only 5mil to take it down to 50mil and stop at that.Anon33,i was going to bleat on about ,thats you and not me, you relapseing dont mean im going to relapse,like i said had to read the posts and think about this situation and our D.S.P's are'nt that different,i will even say that it seems that most of the countries D.S.P's are reading from the same page and its reduction,reduction and more reduction,yes Anon33 i will expect headaches because headaches is all i ever get off my D.S.P.What a total fucking idiot i have been ,HOODWINKED by the very same people who are supposed to be supporting me,this has totally done my head in now.OP8S im not using but im the same if i walked into my mates house and was confronted with either gear or white i would also be defeated by temptation,i also know that it would'nt lead to a mass relapse but all the same i would still relapse.Plus i dont want to be Abstinate,i want to do a little gear if i wanted or buy an eighth of white and a teenth of gear at Christmas,i dont drink ,so by indulgeing in drugs is like having a pint to me ,the outcome is the same at the end of the night i fall asleep lol.Joking aside im grateful to everyone who had input on this subject because if you didnt have i wouldnt of thought so much about my appointment the other day and looking back i can now see the Agenda.Cheers to you all ,All the best Froude

[derek d j]

It's surprising how often it happens, Froude. Users go into their appointments full of the joys of spring and wanting to be nice. The persuasion is then sprung upon them. Afterwards, nobody likes to feel suckered and users can maintain the pretext it's what they want. Right up until they discover it decidedly isn't.

A remarkable development in Drug Treatment. There appears to be a massive, possibly 'encouraged' delusion on the part of some dsp staff that users attend not as the price of their 'script' but for the 'help' their wisdom can offer. Lamb of God, you'd have to be in one sorry state to turn to these sad sacks for guidance. I'd love to learn more about the kind of 'training' to which such folk are subjected.

'Keyworkers'! What a joke. You could sack the lot tomorrow and it would make not a blind bit of difference. Like many others, Froude, you're a victim of job creation schemes and a strange kind of madness.

[sapphire]

I think it is 96% of the NTA budget goes on salaries. Says it all really.

Don't let them grind you down froude, if you don't want to reduce don't let them push you into it.

It seems that all across the country CDT/DSP service users are being forced or pressured into reducing when they don't want to.

I say again Alliance Staff - Are you in talks with the NTA about the pressure Service Users are under to enter reductions tey do not want?
Is there anything we as forum members can do to help??

I don't mean to be antagonistic but surely this is the sort of thing that the Alliance as an organisation should be rallying against?

[usandthem]

I am getting head-aches from my key-worker. This shared care -CRI (crimes reduction initiative) Pathways to Recovery is a complete joke. Prescriptions never signed on collection day. I mean (lol) they only have 2 weeks to knock up a prescription and get a doctor's scribble on it. I have had to scream down the phone at the clinic and to CRI..the new CDT. I get worked up when my prescriptions not there..and they know this. I don't know if im just paranoid or think they are trying to grind me down..as I keep refusing the key workers gestures of pressure for me to reduce. I am sticking to my guns. But then I find my prescriptions are lagging..and they tell mr to pick up my prescription at 5pm..and the pharmacist shuts at 6pm. It takes half an hour just to process the script and knock up the juice. I feel like I am being warn down to give in to a reduction that will only benefit them and not me I won't give in.