Frustrated!!!

[mac15]

HI,

I write this through gritted teeth due to anger and frustration.

I posted a topic a few days ago and users of this site or staff,if there are really any,cannot be arsed even to  reply to my post.Do people no longer care anymore or are they to busy playing games on facebook!!

This is not the first time this has happend to me or others that i have kept in contact through this site.Is this site ran as a charity or is there tax payers money being plowed into this on the basis that they do actually help people.

Also the people who view this site,can you not identify with someones plight or problem,how they feel or what they may also have happned to them also whilst on a script or using,it seems to me that no one gives a dam about how others are doing or feeling or who may need a few words of encouragement just to know someone out there cares about them??

It has taken me 7mins to write this,now that 7 mins could in fact be enough to stop someone going out and using or worse still feeling suicidal.Right at this moment i want a drink after 12 years sobriety,a few blues would be good and f''k it a bag just to forget the wee shity problems i have goin round in my head!!!

I dont know what im gonnae do,what i do know is i cant wait days hopeing someone has taken a few minutes to reply to my post,checking every hour,just in case.

Have a think about it,are you doing your bit to help someone? Could you do more?

Im away to think about what im gonnae do,its my choice but its peoples lifes we are dealing with here,care enough to share a wee bit with someone,cause im sick of constantly checking to see if someone,just one person cares enough.Maybe i might have to look to another Help Forum for advice,nobody knows how an addicts head works except another addict.

Bye  Stevie

[Ursula]

Hi Mac,
 
I'm really sorry you feel like nobody's here, and that's clearly something we need to work on.  We've just had some major changes at the Alliance and one of the things that will be happening in the future is that responding to queries in the forum is going to be a core part of two of our staff members' roles.  I think one of the reasons there hasn't been a response to your thread is that it was the bank holiday weekend and both of those members of staff (our helpline operator and our advocacy manager) have come back to the backlog of work that such weekends often leave them with.  I was in the office today with the helpline operator and I think she had about three minutes where she wasn't either on a call or trying to find an answer for someone.  She didn't even have a fag break, which is the hallmark of a hectic day. 
 
I often don't respond to stuff when I don't know the answer.  I'm the Alliance's admin/finance/HR/funding/techy bod and I'm one of only a couple of people at the Alliance who haven't had any experience of being in treatment myself.  For that reason, I'm really wary of coming into threads where I can't help and not offering anything useful.  If I know about something, I'll come in and talk about it, but I would rather give no advice than give bad advice, especially where bad advice could endanger people.  Having said that, I think you're right that letting people know that you're reading would help, so I'll do my best to respond to threads in future, even if it's just to say that I don't know what to do but I'm thinking of them (because I do - there are things I've read about on here which will stick with me for the rest of my life). 
 
This forum isn't funded by anyone, and nor is staff time for the forum.  It's envisaged as an extension to the helpline, but we've always said that if a problem is urgent or you want an immediate response, you're better off calling the helpline direct because that is funded and there’s always someone at the other end during office hours.  The forum's something we expect our staff to check when they've got a free moment, but until now it hasn't been a core function for any particular member of staff.    That all changes from now, and I hope that it will begin to show. 
 
You’re right that the forum’s not doing what it should at the moment, but we are doing our best to get it back to a place where it does.   I’m really sorry you’re having such a bad time at the moment, and I wish I could offer anything more useful than my thoughts. 
 
Ursula

[mac15]

Thanks Ursula for your time and kind words.Its not the staff i have a Gripe with its the people who use it.

Its them that are addicts and understand what im going through or thinking or feeling.Its them that could take 5 mins to help someone!!!

You mentioned the helpline only being open during office hours,that just isn't good enough.My post was made at 7pm,who's gonnae help me then,i know through service within AA the telephone calls can be diverted to volunteers house!! What if i need help at 10pm,what do i do...sit tight to 9am until someone can answer my phone call when im wanting to go and use,aye right,absolutely no chance,i need someone then.

If the members of this Forum took more interest in this Forum,just for 5 mins every hour or so if there not to busy on msn or facebook!!

I do know members work and cant get to a computer but those who can for a short while would give the Forum the Power it needs where we are all helping each other!!

Thanks again for your 10mins Ursula,it does help when you know someone is thinking of you as even now without using i can be with a hundred people and still feel like the lonliest person on the planet,so thanks!!

Stevie x

[skunkworks]

Interesting outburst there Stevie....

So let me get this correct - it is the users of this site you have a problem with is it?
Because they have the temerity to read your posts and not reply instantly with the sage wisdom of a Burroughs or a Freud ?!?

I am sure many users here simply have nothing constructive to say to you mate, caught up - as I am sure you can appreciate - with their own struggles with life, methadone, addiction, job searching and the myriad other rocks 'n' hard places out there in the big bad evil world...

Would our junkie worlds all be a better place if there was some sort of utopian virtual-love in where we could all go to rant and rave. A place where there was always someone on hand to guide the worried and the wasted, the helpless and the hopeless?
Aint gonna happen mate. We all got our own problems see, and when we have done battling through the sh1te today has got in store for us there is very little left over in the sympathy and compassion reserves. And you know something else - that little bit we have got left over, well it aint going on those that throw a screaming hissy fit just because their particular question didn't get answered, their particular problem didn't get addressed...

Rest assured mate, the windfall of utter cr@p life has dished me out in the last 3 years would send a saint running to the skag.
So excuse me if I don't get out the comfy couch, then ask you to make yourself comfortable on it whilst you tell me all about what has made you angry/mad/depressed/annoyed/suicidal today eh?

I speak only for myself on this. Personally I don't much feel like posting here very often - I do gain comfort knowing I am not the only one on this crazy merry go round called life that gets the sh1tty end of the stick - so lurking here is my therapy thank you very much.
I've always been one to keep my problems to myself, deal with them in my own way. I don't feel I have the right to come here and burden you all with my troubles, but I tell you something - if it got so bad I did need to post here - then so help me god I'd do it in a much more humble and dignified manner than what I have just read from you Stevie .....

Peace.

SW.

[mac15]

Hi SW,

I think you seem to have picked up the wrong end of the stick mate.The point i was trying to make was that sure we all have our own crap to deal with on a daily basis but correct me if im wrong,is this site not the ideal place to get something off your chest knowing that someone else may well have been through similar thus then they can share how they dealt with it.

I wasnt throwing a "Hissy Fit" as you put it,i was just trying to share what was happening in my life in the HOPE maybe someone cared enough to share how they deal with the crap that goes on daily!!

I see this is your first post on here,do you have any empathy at all for people who are struggling or wanting to use,or find out how to get off Methadone,by the nature of your post i dont think so!!

If more people like yourself came on here and posted how they were copeing or how they weren't then the forum would be doing its job would it not???

Do you have a problem with people who struggle to stay clean on a daily basis? I was trying to make a few constructive points and views about how the forum could maybe work better if more people used it and shared their common problem ....ADDICTION!!

You say you dont have the right to burden people with your problems,i wouldnt see it as a burden,if you posted something on here that i had been through or felt i would take 10 mins and tell you what i did or done.

I might be wrong but is this not the kind of place that you should feel free to share whats goin on in your life without fear of people critisizing,do we not get enough of that from people who havnt addiction problems?

We will agree to dis-agree and thats alrite but i felt it was more of a personal attack on me rather than a constructive point.

All the best in your recovery,oh and havnt you seen the TV advert on Suicide telling people to share their problems before its to late? Well thats what i try to do,share them before its to late and i could be out useing again!!

Best Wishes Stevie

[Flip]

Hi Mac15

I PM'ed you this morning when you were online but I guess you didn't see it. I mostly only look in here  once a day and only post  if I feel I can contribute something  positive to the discussion. I saw your post a day or two ago and after reading it decided that the only news I'd be able to give you was bad,  so I didn't reply because I hoped someone might have been able to come up with something positive to tell you .  It's also true as Ursula said that at first you didn't really give enough information for anyone to advise you properly . After seeing your second post and considering its contents I still think most of what I'd be likely to tell you is probably not good news or at least not what you'd want to hear.

Again as Ursula pointed out it was a long weekend and this forum has been very quiet recently, if I recall correctly someone posted about that a couple of days ago. Given that it is very quiet at the moment  I don't think its really fair to castigate people for not replying to your post as quickly as you'd like , maybe no-one felt   they had anything to offer you and probably not many people read it over the long weekend?

On the other hand... I can see this is obviously something  that is very important to you at the moment so I guess I can understand your impatience. But as Skunk said  if you are seeking help it's usually better to have a little humility about it and not launch into people when you don't get answers as quickly as you may like. Anyway my purpose in this post isn't to give you a hard time and since no-one else has yet addressed your original issues I'll give you my thoughts on the matter, but as I said I don't really have much that's positive to give you, so I hope you will take this in the spirit it's intended.

The first point that causes me concern is that you'd even consider using gear to get yourself off methadone in a hurry! While I suppose its logical to consider that course and its a "means to an end" in  your situation I have to say I think it's a really bad idea. I've seen a lot of people attempt to give up methadone by going back to using gear and I've yet to hear of anyone succeeding and not going back on either gear or methadone in the long run. There are always too many reasons to keep on using it and very few compelling ones to stop again. There's always that "one extra day to take it" because you don't feel 100% or you've still got a few lingering symptoms of withdrawal  and remember you would presumably be going straight from gear use yourself  to dealing with using addicts that's a hell of a temptation! I posted once before about the problems I had working in a rehab after being a user myself  and my subsequent relapse. I'd been straight for a fair while and it still proved too much of a temptation. I'm not saying you are as weak willed as I was I'm just trying to point out the danger and its a danger I see multiplied if you are straight out of withdrawal and possibly active gear use yourself.

  I've  posted my experiences working in  a rehab and  about the question of  addicts/ ex addicts working with using  addicts before   it's on Page 2  Under the "Ask a question" section,  5th from the bottom with  the title "Volunteering in drugs/alcohol services after getting clean/sober?" I don't want to have to re-post it because its quite long but I'd urge you to have a look as it concerns a number of  other issues relating to this topic  and also to show that I'd give the same advice to anyone and I'm not just trying to have a shot at you  .


 I don't know how you administered your gear when you were using but if it was IV you are adding another really powerful variable to the situation. Often being able to put down the needles is a critical step in recovery, do you really think you will just be able to stop when you want to? Even if you didn't use IV  remember how hard it was to go onto methadone alone in the first place without using any gear on top? Are you capable of doing that again but this time  instead of going onto methadone  you are going to be completely straight?     Brother if you were really capable of just putting down gear after active use I think  you would have done it a long while ago and not needed to go on methadone in the first place. This isn't a criticism of you we've all been there, that's why this worries me.

The second point of concern is this "95 mg wall" you are hitting with the methadone, what makes you think you wont hit the same wall halfway down your gear reduction? If you do hit the wall  what course of action will you take?
I assume you are a long term user of both gear and methadone and I would guess the reason you are hitting this wall is because you have damaged your body's own endorphin systems. The fact this wall exists in the first place seems to indicate that your body needs a certain critical amount of external opiates to function properly. Gear doesn't fill your receptors anywhere near as completely as methadone does and its much shorter acting,  do you really think you are just going to be able to breeze through this? Why would you be able to scale this wall while using a far less adequate opiate when you are having problems doing it with probably the best opiate for the job?

OK onto the possibility of getting off  the juice in time to do this job. I wouldn't recommend things like "Detox 5" (UROD) because its expensive , doesn't work well with methadone users (or anyone in my opinion) and given that you are having problems reducing already I doubt your body would take it. I've already discussed the using gear to reduce idea so the only thing left is cold turkey either on your own or in a rehab (if you can find one). Again I think you will have problems with this due to your 95 mg wall and either method is likely to leave you feeling very rough considering the short time you have to do it in.

Don't get me wrong I do honour your desire to help other addicts, its something many of us feel and I know how frustrating it can be to have to pass up what seems to be a great opportunity to do what you want and be able  to help other addicts at the same time  . I wouldn't like to say its impossible because people are capable of amazing things . If you had say a year to cut down then maybe... but with the shortness of time and  the problems you've already encountered I think you are going to have real problems managing this one.    I honestly wish you the best of luck and I wish I had something more positive to offer you but I think you are putting the cart before the horse here. If I hadn't already posted a fairly lengthy reply to this question before then this post would have to be even longer to cover most of the bases.As it is it's taken most of a couple of hours to write it , I don't like to give people off-hand comments and I'm sure others feel the same way about such important issues as you raised  therefore I hope you understand why I  (or anyone else) couldn't just give you "5 minutes of our precious time fiddling around on facebook" (which I loathe incidentally  )

Good luck man I hope it works out  for you.

Flip

[mac15]

Thanks Flip,

Firstly for taking the time to write such a detailed reply with a great deal of knowledge and understanding.

I would also like to appologise to people if i came across angry and frustrated,i was but i shouldnt have taken it out on people who may also be having a rough ride at the moment themselves,for that i am SORRY!!
I was only trying to maybe get more people involved in the site and to help one and other.

FLIP... You where spot on with everything you said my friend,i just needed to hear it from someone elses point of view.Looking back on it know it was just the excitement of being offered a job in a Rehab where i had been and got clean and also i feel i would be pretty good at it but not at this precise moment,i have all the Qualifications,there will be other jobs if thats the line of work i choose to go into.

I'm not working at the moment and was frustrated at sending CV's away without reply and then im offered this job out the blue...i jumped the gun.
I will just have to give time...time and see what happens?

Im more concerned about getting offof Methadone though Flip and i dont know what road to take,im 38 and don't want to be on a script til the day i leave this world but the situation with hitting that "WALL" scares me and makes me doubt getting passed that in the community!! Also as you are aware trying to get funding especially in Glasgow is an absolute nightmare,and deep down i know there is no way i could come off it with gear,it was just a shot in the dark to see if anyone would reply to my post and say they had done it.

Again my appologise if i came across as if i'd spat the dummy out but i was having a real bad day but had no right to take it out on others,so SORRY once again!!

Thanks FLIP for your time and concern and thats maybe the point i was trying to make,if you have a little spare time,jump onto the Forum and see if anyone needs a helping hand.

Yours in Friendship

Stevie

[Flip]

No probs Stevie
I know what you mean about feeling like you will never get off the juice though. I was on it for 10 years followed by a year of sheer hell when I finally did came off. I had a few underlying physical  problems developing that had been masked by the methadone plus there was the 10 years older I'd  gotten  in the mean-time that I hadnt factored into the equation so I felt pretty wretched when I finally did come off. 

I suppose the only thing I can suggest in your case is  maybe try a * really* slow withdrawal to  get below the 95mg wall, maybe something as slow as 1mg a month or even every six weeks. I know how frustrating that can be but I don't see many other options. It's almost certain having had the bad experience that you've built that number  up in your mind a bit too much too, so maybe even try something like leaving a couple of drops in the bottle? I mean its fairly unlikely you've been taking exactly 95 at every dosing  simply due to small  measurement errors . You may find its become partly psychological now.  Also your general state of health can make a fair bit of difference to how you feel at any given time, you might be in a slightly better place than the last time you tried. Although this might be a critical point for you ; you may find if you can get a little bit below that dose your body starts to produce its own painkillers again,there's so much variation between people it's hard to know really. Most people hit a wall at some point of withdrawal and the problems tend to be cumulative, have you considered that you may just have cut down too quickly to that point last time?. Something to remember about coming down 5mg at a time is that each drop is a larger percentage of your total remaining  dose it may be that 95mg became the point where the percentage became too high for you. and your body was telling you to slow down a bit.

I guess the other thing to consider is that you  could have done irreparable damage to your endorphin system and may therefore always need something like methadone. I don't believe there's any shame in that and I know plenty of people who are quite happy to be on methadone for the rest of their lives and manage to be productive in the ways they want to . I mean you wouldn't kick yourself if you became diabetic and needed insulin for the rest of your life.

 Your life is what you choose to make of it and many people deal with far worse problems than a bit of opiate addiction . I do realise that being on methadone is almost certainly going to disqualify you for most rehab type jobs unless you can find somewhere sympathetic like the Alliance  but  as I said to Lucy you must have developed a bunch of skills relevant to other areas of social work or human rights. It's really a matter of seeing where you can contribute if that's what you want to do. It's sad that it may not be in the area you really want right now but things can change with time and there maybe other opportunities that attract you in the future, you may just need to broaden your horizons a little in the meantime or reassess the whole situation again if you find you are finally stuck on methadone.

Anyway mate  good luck and if you need some moral support or just want to chat sometime shoot me a PM, I'm not in Scotland but I'm not far South of the border.

Cheers!
Flip.

[alli]

Hi Mac 15 -

I am glad you wrote what you did - it was what you felt at the time and it was real, - you were frustrated and angry and you shared it, and I think it takes courage to do so, - so as far as I am concerned it takes more guts to do what you did that to keep holding back and not saying anything for fear of offending someone.  Someone is always going to be offended somewhere, - you can be sure of that!  I have felt like that on many occasions about this site, - frustrated that a site that is so well thought out and structured seems to be used so little.  I have been in your situation and asked for advice and help, and did not get any replies and it bloody well pissed me off as well, - and it is why I don't really post on here much any more. I do not think you deserve to be insulted or criticised for sharing your frustration and I'm glad you got people talkiing and posting, - cheers Mac15.

[tommy72]

Hi Stevie.
As Alli mentioned above,i'm also glad you posted as i wouldn't have sent you a message and got to have a wee chat with you.
So thanks for your outburst mate he he!

[mac15]

hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this subject,some agreed with me,some didnt but that was exactly the kind of response i wanted,to encourage debate and try and get people to talk about whats going on in their life,good or bad.There are to many people recovering from addiction and on Methadone and think that nobody understands or cares,well i really do!!

This site a couple of years go probably saved my life,i was in a mess in a hospital bed with no one to talk to but this site,i was full of shame,guilt and remore,my doctor who had worked in Childrens Hospitals and War zones told me with no great pride that i was the only person that he was never able to get blood out of,due to the damage i had done to my veins.Now who could i share that with,who wouldnt judge or criticise.....NO ONE!!!

I had my laptop on my bedside  table and poured my heart out on here.Ursula and McD will remember it well,they helped me through it by shareing there experience and wisdom with me,thats what i want for this forum.Maybe they could advertise or promote the site a bit more but it comes down to us,the people to use the site in any way that helps us get through a day without feeling all alone in what is a big bad world!!!

The only real negative came from someone named SKUNKWORKS and it was his first post,i think that says it all but i dont de-cry him his opinion.

I have also had the pleasure of meeting two people in the last while,we keep in contact regularly by PM and share about whats going on in our lifes,some good,some horrendous but i know i have met two friends through this post that i will have for a long time i hope,they know who they are xxx

Also the staff,some unpaid who try to help as much as they can on a shoe string budget,people do care and understand,i only hope that this site can somehow reach out to the people who dont know about it,as i said posters in chemists and doctors would make a huge difference.

So bye for now folks and thanks for the help that i have been given in the past and definetly in the future.

Love and Best Wishes

Stevie

[skunkworks]

Oh Lordy Lord!

See this crap is EXACTLY why people hate junkies - recovering or active.
The World, this site, me, whoever - nobody owes junkies anything. I see the same thing every damn time I go to my clinic for an appointment or
chat, every time I collect my hard earned weekly 130mg/day pickups every Friday...

Junkies whining that their scripts aren't ready, somebody had the audacity to make a mistake on wording or some other state imposed rule got
accidentally transgressed - and 'they' got to come back later when it's sorted. The injustice of it eh .

95% of them aint doing anything anyway, I have to take a day off self-employment if they mess my script up and all I ever am - rattling or not -
is grateful. I paid for every opiate I ever got messed up on, never committed a crime, paid my way. So excuse me when I react to the
stereotypical hard done by junkie routine, just maybe I am sick of hearing it.

Oh and woe betide the poor pharmacist when she has had such a busy morning that she has to ask someone to come back in half an hour for their
methadone/subutex/diazepam - rant - rave - swear - disrespect disrespect x1000... yet I sit there waiting.... just happy that I can get a life
saving maintenance - no replacement - therapy in a country that refuses life saving cancer therapy to some poor 30 year old mother who has worked
every day of her life since she was 16 and had the misfortune to get ill in the wrong fcuking county ...

You bet your self important @rse I made my first post here the post it was. I've lurked and read here for a long time, suits me thank you very
much and I am so very sorry I couldn't be there to reply to your outburst.
I am sure it was important and urgent and I am sure I wouldn't have bothered making my 1st post had you employed a little humility.
As for those who have chosen to humour you and your attitude. Re-read this thread. It's just bloody awful.

I have just watched my mother take a year to die from metastatic liver and bone cancer and I had to literally beg those nursing her for morphine,
I am a hundred fcuking thousand pounds in debt trying to prop up several businesses that employ many people in this godforsaken recession -
haven't even paid myself a wage for 18 months so I can pay my people, so I guess I got to sit and watch and listen to your kind of crap as I lose
my family home, the roof over my unwell father's and my 2 daughters heads, and hey guess what?
yeah this all started when I nearly fcuking died from Legionnaires disease - 4 weeks on life support, mechanical breathing through trach tubes and kept alive via 32 different lines - all the
time enduring a forced withdrawal from 130mg of methadone a day because they couldn't keep the bstard stuff in me long enough.
You want to talk about rattling? holyiee SH|T man!

And hey, this is just the stuff I feel *almost* comfortable posting, the rest, aw fcuk it who cares, why should anyone? nobody can here on these
forums - nobody knows me personally so how can they? best offer here will be some some sort of psuedo-sympathy.
Keep it. Don't need it. Don't want it.
Only mention it to throw a little subjectivity into the Alliance Forum ring ...

Well that's me done if I could just finish with a reply to this I'll be on my way;

--
"The only real negative came from someone named SKUNKWORKS and it was his first post,i think that says it all but i dont de-cry him his opinion."
--

I hope you take the time to read what I have said, as it seems so important to you for us all to share.
It was my second and last post here.
If you copy and paste it to the end of my first post I think you will find that it does indeed 'say it all' .....

 ... and it's 'DECRY HIS opinion' ....

Happy wallowing ....

SkunkWorks.

 

[wastedyouth]

This is for SKUNKWORKS it sounds like you have had a hard time of it recently, but at the end of the day you must have came to this forum for some reason, the same reason as the rest of us because you are on methadone and you were looking for something , anything that would help.  But to sit there and tar all addicts and recovering addicts with the same brush i find just sad you of all people know what it's like(the stigma), i certinatly don't mone about scripts and drug workers, when i go on a rant its about how much pressure and how many paitiants and clients they have on their books.  I do not expect anything from anyone everything i have done im my recovery i have done myself i have never been to NA i dont have social wokers or drug workers i did it alone without asking or thinking i was owed anything.  Oh! and i dont sit about doing nothing all day i go to college part time(3 Days) and have two children, and im sure you'll know with having two daughters thats a full time job, if done properly.

Anyway i dont want to go on you sound like your going through the wringer, i just ask dont tar us all with the same brush, you not the only addict i know that hold down a job. Good Luck

[OP8S]

What was said was said! skunkworks had a good angle on it & so did mac15. We're all here because off some shitty hand we've been dealt/ or chosen & we all have to get through the simple mundanities life constantly throughs up at us. I joined the Alliance about a year ago ( I think ?) & things were a bit on the quiet side to say the least but recentley, things have been a bit more lively & there is a reason to check (even if it's just a PM, especially actually!) I think it's a good way of finding out how different areas of the country deal with methadone prescribing & I also have come across people I have real admiration for. If their ever was a time where a Union of Methadone Users was needed now is the time. I apologise if I do not take part in a lot of threads/discussion but after working a 12hour day & doing the rest that goes along with it, quite often I would far rather just relax. On the other hand I would never ignore somebody intentionaly. Got a busy life , as I'm sure many people do

[zelah 52]

hi just logged in ,read your message your not very happy then are you ,I know just how your feeling cos iv been there myself a hundred times,your right when you say no one cares ,because everyone has problems of thier own and it takes an addict to understand another addict so if you want to talk to me im here for u ok.