Observer Article sunday 17th November

[will-c]

I read the article, I cant say I agreed with alot of it. I do think they put an arguement up for both side however I think they weighed the balance more on the why are people being left on Methadone and why are poor rehabs having to be closed down. The celebrity arguement around kate Moss, your man from Take that and Amy Whinehouse didnt really say anything as two of them were coke users and one is stabilising on a script now and doing much better now she has the choice she was looking for.
I have been through 9 rehabs, which I have explianed before and none of them really lived up to any expectation, they all spouted the same mantra, in fact you could have tape recorded the first counsellors response to addiction and sent it around the rest. I dont feel any pity for the rehabs closing which was mentioned as they all made their money when the going was good and folded when the going got tough. Such is life...

Going for dinner 

[Fluoro]

I read the magazine, but was a bit confused with some of the survey results. I always thought that valium and diazepam were the same thing? I thought valium was an out of date brand name for diazepam, but understand that people on the street still refer to it as valium. However I would of thought that the journalist doing the survey would of grouped the two names as one.

Regarding the bit on methadone v rehab, was it a mis-print, or was it saying that the girl was on 10ml concentrated meth? I know there is a concentrated version of meth 10x and 20x the strength of the green, but thought this was for pharmacists to dilute? And especially with her having a child.

[will-c]

I thought it was concentrate and thats why it was described as bitter tasting

[dave penn]

I read the magazine, but was a bit confused with some of the survey results. I always thought that valium and diazepam were the same thing? I thought valium was an out of date brand name for diazepam, but understand that people on the street still refer to it as valium. However I would of thought that the journalist doing the survey would of grouped the two names as one.

Regarding the bit on methadone v rehab, was it a mis-print, or was it saying that the girl was on 10ml concentrated meth? I know there is a concentrated version of meth 10x and 20x the strength of the green, but thought this was for pharmacists to dilute? And especially with her having a child.

Hi Tomo,

This is Michelle Kerry 'the girl in the article'. Just to clarify that I am on Methadose; 10mg x 1ml and I take 10mls daily which is the same as 100mls of green methadone,now I have explained that,could you please elaborate on what you mean when you said'And especially with her having a child'. Please do tell what is your point ??

[Mark Gilman]

You might be interested in this:



http://wiredin.org.uk/practitioners/community/blog/entry/682/aspirations-raising-the-bar/

[mcdermott]

OK, I've left a comment on there. Thanks for the tip, Mark.

Also: Hi Michelle! 

[will-c]

is it worth joing that forum???

[alli]

But I do think that people hugely underestimate the subtle but overwhelming impact that the stigma of drug treatment has.. and the way that it eats away at your self-esteem. One of the reasons why I'm so angry with this whole re-raising of the abstinence issue is that I think it reinforces that stigma, it attempts to paint us as second class citizens who are somehow inferior to people who are abstinent, simply by virtue of the fact that we're on medication.

And part of the problem is that we go down to our clinics and see quite a lot of people who are in methadone treatment who aren't doing quite so well, and are still pretty chaotic, and we assume that the world lumps us in with them. And a big segment of it actually does.

I've just figured how to do the quote thing, took me ages.  I think stigma is key here.  It has such an enormous impact in so many areas.  My main motivation for trying to become abstinant was that I felt so ashamed about having become a 'junkie'.  I dabbled with herion in my eary twenties and realised I liked it a lot - and knew that if I didn't move away from Edinburgh I would get addicted, like my brother.  So I moved abroad for a while, - then back to Britain (but not Scotland) some years later to have my daughter.  I would occassionally get some df's and valium or snort a wee bit of gear every time my brother visited me or I him - but to be honest was glad to be away from where I knew I could get it easily.   I got addicted to it 5 years ago when I reached crisis point in my life and getting pissed didn't appeal.  So I went out and got a bag (when i really put my mind to it, it was very easy to get) - only snorted it at first (and a 20 quid bag used to last me a week!).  Went to doc who put me on DF's and valium, got addicted to them, another crisis point - started taking gear again, intraveanously.  Couldn't get used to banging it up myself so mostly got other people to do it - and my using only happened in 2 - 6 week spurts.  I think that over the 5 years I used gear for about 6 months, and out of the 6 months about 2 intraveanously, - the rest of the time I spent trying to come off methadone.  I've tried to stabalise and do it very slowly over the last year and a half.    The desperation to get off - for me - was driven by my shame.  This desparation meant that I enevitably failed and would relapse - use chaotically for a few weeks, before once again stabilising back on the methadone.  I'm lucky to still be alive.   

The shame is caused by 2 things - the stigma about drug use in society - the way people treat and talk about drug users, and from the way my mother reacted to my father's alcoholism.  She repeatedly ridiculed and humiliated him, we were all left in no doubt about what we would become if we ever became addicted to alcohol or anything else.   When I first tried to get treatment I was shocked at the way some of the doctors I saw spoke to me.  I thought that surely they would understand the nature of addiction (and I'd read that there were a lot of addicts in that profession) - and was also shocked at behaviour of many of the workers in the drug treatment services.  A drug's worker I spoke to recently said that when he goes to treatment centres to meet with service providers -  it is often thought that he is a drug user seeking treatment at first (because of the way he looks he says) - then when he tells them who he is their behaviour and whole demeanor changes - and they become warm, welcoming and respectful.  In my mind being on methadone was 'as bad' as being on gear - and believed (as society does I think) I could not be a 'normal', respectful, worthy part of society until I was free of it and most of the 'professionals' I came into contact with reflected this in their behaviour towards me.

[alli]

Well I thought I'd figured out the quote thing, obviously not.  Havn't even figured out the bloody posting thing, posted above by mistake - hadn't finished what I wanted to write.  Now i feel pressurised, ah!

I think it may be the same for a lot of people - because of the shame and stigma - many people don't even consider being stable on methadone a viable alternative.  Which is a shame because as you say McD - many would be able to contribute to society every bit as much as anyone else out there.  And I'm sure too that many lives are lost in the drive and desparation to become abstinate.

There was an good article in the black poppy - wish I could give you a link - havn't got a bloody clue! - from a guy (Stanton Peele) who talks about the 12 steppers and the 'disease' model of addiction.

I think that the treatment most people read about and know about is the NA/AA way - and it treats addiction as a disease and 'users' as 'diseased', like lepers.  From films, books (partic. celeb autobiographies), celebrity culture (and a lot of it is from the US) - people hear that 12 step is the only way that works to cure this 'disease' - it becomes part of our 'cultural consciouseness'.

I didn't know any better - I assimilated what I read/heard - I didn't hear about people who were happy to stabilise on methadone - I didn't know any.  All the people I met wanted what I did - total abstinance.  It was about getting our respect back.  I think we've got a long way to go to change society's thinking around drug users and their treatment - but I've changed my thinking, and that's a start!

[alli]

PS - forgot to say for people reading the above quote - only the first part of it is by McDermot - the first two paragraphs, starting;  ' but I do think' ... and ending, it actually does'.  The rest of it is mine.  Hope it is not too confusing.  Sorry! alli x

[mcdermott]

PS - forgot to say for people reading the above quote - only the first part of it is by McDermot - the first two paragraphs, starting;  ' but I do think' ... and ending, it actually does'.  The rest of it is mine.  Hope it is not too confusing.  Sorry! alli x

Fixed it for you.

The key is, the stuff you want to quote should be between two lots of [].. the first one opens the quote and says who it's by. The final one, that just contains '/quote', closes the quote.

Everything outside that will be your own comment. You'd somehow managed to delete the closing quote, so everything ended up as quoted material. Preview is a good way of checking if it works or not though.

[saramcgrail]

Alli, I think that's a really useful and interesting posting. I think you bring out some really important things here. For example when people talk about people who use gear saying I just want to be abstinent its often interpreted in one of two ways. Either, people say "Look this poor person wants to get off drugs but they haven't been given the chance" OR "This scumbag is just telling me what I want to hear". You add a different perspective and I'm grateful for it. An internal battle with stigma must be an incredibly hard thing to deal with and an incredibly difficult thing to manage when it comes to making decisions about life. Somewhere in all the debates that are going on, and in the stereotypes we have built of users and workers etc, we seem to have forgotten this particular aspect of people's experience.

Hey P., do we have to have purple quotes? Its a bit goth isn't it? Could we not have a nice peach or a pale pink or something? ;-)

[Fluoro]

Michelle,
The point I was making regarding you having a child, was that everybody knows how dangerous methadone is to the non-tolerant person, e.g a child. And with all the publicity methadone gets in regards to its o'd potential, usually after the death of a child, I just found it strange that a methadone patient would be given a concentrated version of an already strong medication, especially when children live in the house.

I'm not, and was'nt trying to question your ability as a mum, it was clear from the magazine that you love your child. I am just saying that your the first person I've heard of being prescribed concentrated meth.

Got to go now, but will finish what I was saying soon.

[Fluoro]

Michelle (the girl in the article),
Just to finish off what I was trying to say. As the Observer magazine pointed out; the treatment of methadone patients tend to be looked upon as a group, as opposed to individuals. And although I don't doubt you are responsible with your meth, regarding its safe storage, you are still taking a medication that, rightly or wrongly carries a certain amount of social stigma, and the irresponsible actions of a few patients/parents in the past, has not helped the perception people have of
the vast majority of us.

Over the last 12 months alone, there have been a few child deaths in the news associated with accidental methadone overdose, and I thought that would have made the prescribing of methadone even more restrictive. Also don't forget different areas have different policies, e.g I had my monthly appointment at the clinic this week, and I was talking about you being on concentrated meth, and was told that it would'nt be prescribed where I am, however on the other hand my clinic prescribe meth tablets to some patients, whereas I've heard some parts of the country won't.